: - ) ALL What was that ringing sound at The Great Northern Hotel?

[The Bookhouse Bot]

Was the sound Ben Horne hears in Season 2 the same one he hears in Season 3?

 

[thunderclap]

I'm wondering if it is. I've recently been re-watching the original series and picked up on an exchange in Season 2. It's possible this has been discussed previously -- maybe on Dugpa -- but I may have missed it. In Season 2 Episode 11 at 32:56:

Ben: "Do you think the furniture in this room is adequately arranged? I have been toying with a notion that if one could find the perfect arrangement of all objects in any particular space, it could create a resonance that benefits from which, to the individual dwelling in that space, could be extensive. Could be far-reaching."

And then in the next episode, opening scene, he has rearranged the room and says to Bobby:

"Do you know what you have to have in this world? Balance. Distance. Symmetry."

Then a short exchange later:

"You're standing in front of a mammoth skyscraper, a leviathan that rips a hole in the clouds. Now, what's the first question that comes to your mind? ... The first question that you ask yourself is what's on the top floor? Who's up there in the penthouse, and why?"

So we know he's achieved some sort of resonance because in Season 3 we hear it. As for the mammoth skyscraper, there is only one that stands out to me:




Now I don't know what this connection is, but I feel there is a connection. Has anyone thought much about this, or read anything that could shed light on it? Did Ben somehow tap into where the Fireman is?

 

[Cappy]

It seemed to me like it was a Josie thing back in the day, but in Season 3 it probably has a very different significance.

It’s sort of funny that Ben has a time portal ( or a portal to a time portal ) under his place of business, considering how much time he spends reminiscing about the past. If he only knew!

 

[thunderclap]

Now in S02E20 Ben hears the ringing when Audrey leaves his office around 25:15. Incidentally, the episode is titled "The Path to the Black Lodge."

This is the same episode where a patron at the Double R, Cooper, and Pete have their hands shake.

Something to note: the sound Ben hears is the same as he hears in Season 3 while the sound that accompanies the patron, Cooper, and Pete are different.

Another observation: in S02E21, Major Briggs says when Hawk finds him, "Which way to the castle?"

Castle and Palace could be the same thing, so is he really asking "Which way to the palace?" as in Jack Rabbit's Palace?

 

[Cappy]

I also love how the Major utters “Judy…” in his truth serum haze.

 

[Jasper]

Another observation: in S02E21, Major Briggs says when Hawk finds him, "Which way to the castle?"

Castle and Palace could be the same thing, so is he really asking "Which way to the palace?" as in Jack Rabbit's Palace?

I think that back then they had some sort of very loose idea about Briggs perhaps being something like a reincarnation of King Arthur, fitting in with Glastonbury Grove and whatnot, hence his appearance on the stone throne. That might be why they’ve got him cryptically mentioning a castle.

There could possibly have been some influence of the original run upon the new one, where all of the palace stuff is concerned, especially from Frost. It’s fun to examine the possible connections. As mentioned, in the original show, Briggs talks about a castle and appears on a throne in a forest. The Return has a “palace” in the forest where Briggs used to go with his son, and that palace is a little mirror of the Fireman’s home, complete with a portal to get there. When Mr. C goes through that portal, who do we find there with the Fireman but Briggs himself (or at least a jpg of his head). It’s a pretty interesting and creative use of some of the vague old threads from the original show.

So, who is Briggs to the Giant/Fireman in the full picture? Is Briggs some sort of noble personality that is reincarnated at various points in history?

 

[Cappy]

I’ve always been fascinated by the evolution of Major Briggs — he goes from a glorified extra in the pilot, to a supporting character who is kind of a jerk in S1, to a warm and philosophical figure in S2 who is also central to understanding the shows’s developing mythos.

I wonder if this was due to Lynch/Frost realizing that Don Davis was actually a pretty good actor, or maybe they just thought that his character’s job would make him a good conduit for exposition about the Lodges.

 

[Mr. Reindeer]

I’ve always been fascinated by the evolution of Major Briggs — he goes from a glorified extra in the pilot, to a supporting character who is kind of a jerk in S1, to a warm and philosophical figure in S2 who is also central to understanding the shows’s developing mythos.

I wonder if this was due to Lynch/Frost realizing that Don Davis was actually a pretty good actor, or maybe they just thought that his character’s job would make him a good conduit for exposition about the Lodges.

Tina Rathborne recalled that in directing Episode 3, she viewed Briggs in the script as a stodgy authority figure and kind of a square, and Lynch said, “No, no. He’s a very wise man.” This is just a hunch of mine, but I think Garland reminded Lynch of his own dad, or was perhaps intentionally modeled on him a bit.

Interestingly, as early as Episode 5, he’s talking to Einar Thorson about “the legends and folklore of ancient Iceland,” so there’s already some hint of his interest in the mysterious/supernatural.

EDIT: Here’s a photo of Lynch’s parents from Room to Dream:

 

[Cappy]

Fascinating… I would’ve guessed that Briggs’ expanded role was primarily a Frost thing.

 

[Mr. Reindeer]

Fascinating… I would’ve guessed that Briggs’ expanded role was primarily a Frost thing.

I’m sure he had a big part in it. From Conversations with Mark Frost: “I remember thinking that because Major Briggs in the pilot was a perfunctory character, I had the instinct to make him the most spiritually advanced person in town. Lynch really liked that idea, and we went with it.” He makes it sound like the plan was there from very early on, but they didn’t have a chance to bring it to the fore until Episode 8.

 

[Cappy]

I really, really need to read Conversations and Room to Dream.

 

[Mr. Reindeer]

I really, really need to read Conversations and Room to Dream.

Room to Dream really doesn’t have much to offer in the way of TP info (there’s more on The Return), but it’s a wealth of information on Lynch’s life and the making of his earlier films in particular. Conversations has a ton of great insights into the writing of both the original TP and The Return, not to mention theosophy and working with Bochco in the Hill Street Blues writers’ room with David Milch.

 

[Cappy]

I think that back then they had some sort of very loose idea about Briggs perhaps being something like a reincarnation of King Arthur, fitting in with Glastonbury Grove and whatnot, hence his appearance on the stone throne. That might be why they’ve got him cryptically mentioning a castle.

There could possibly have been some influence of the original run upon the new one, where all of the palace stuff is concerned, especially from Frost. It’s fun to examine the possible connections. As mentioned, in the original show, Briggs talks about a castle and appears on a throne in a forest. The Return has a “palace” in the forest where Briggs used to go with his son, and that palace is a little mirror of the Fireman’s home, complete with a portal to get there. When Mr. C goes through that portal, who do we find there with the Fireman but Briggs himself (or at least a jpg of his head). It’s a pretty interesting and creative use of some of the vague old threads from the original show.

So, who is Briggs to the Giant/Fireman in the full picture? Is Briggs some sort of noble personality that is reincarnated at various points in history?

I do struggle to reconcile how overwhelmingly green Briggs’ experience is with the black and white of the Fireman’s palace (white lodge?), or the Mauve Room in S3. Perhaps he traveled to a place that we still don’t know about yet.

The cloaked figure that manifests during his disappearance (and during his recollection of his disappearance) doesn’t easily fit in with S3 for me either, although it might be time displaced Briggs trying to aid his past self.

 

[Mr. Reindeer]

I do struggle to reconcile how overwhelmingly green Briggs’ experience is with the black and white of the Fireman’s palace (white lodge?), or the Mauve Room in S3. Perhaps he traveled to a place that we still don’t know about yet.

The cloaked figure that manifests during his disappearance (and during his recollection of his disappearance) doesn’t easily fit in with S3 for me either, although it might be time displaced Briggs trying to aid his past self.

Again, from Conversations, when asked if we’ve ever seen the White Lodge, Frost says the Fireman’s house is “probably the closest approximation of it you’ll find.”

I personally view the Fireman’s house’s relationship to the White Lodge as being similar to the Red Room’s relationship to the Black Lodge: as a waiting room, or sort of way-station. My image of the White Lodge is the place Briggs describes from his dream in Episode 8. I’m not sure what the hell is up with the weird jungle throne place, which was likely purely a Harley Peyton thing, as he wrote that script and Frost was mostly MIA during that stretch. Actually, the script describes Briggs being in an armchair in the forest as opposed to a stone throne in what looks more like a jungle. I wonder if that was a change Todd Holland made, since he was known to throw some visual curveballs into his episodes. (It always makes me think of King Louie in Disney’s The Jungle Book!)

Also in Conversations, Frost says the Hooded Figure in Episode 17 is the Dweller on the Threshold from theosophy, which Hawk describes in the following episode. I.e., Briggs’s shadow-self (which as I understand it, is a completely distinct thing from both doppelgangers and tulpas).

 

[Jordan Cole]

I'm surprised nobody mentioned that you hear that ringing sound in the Red Room when the Little Man rubs his hands together, as seen here, at about 50 seconds in.



This seems to have slipped by many fans somehow. I'm pretty sure it's to imply this sound originates with him, and that if you hear it, he's nearby, similar to the "I sound like THIS!" noise he makes.

 

[Dom]

I also wonder if the tower refers to the location where Sam Colby and Tracey Barberato get killed. I assumed they were in some sort of tall building. After all, Cooper drops into that glass cube...

 

[hopesfall]

Tina Rathborne recalled that in directing Episode 3, she viewed Briggs in the script as a stodgy authority figure and kind of a square, and Lynch said, “No, no. He’s a very wise man.” This is just a hunch of mine, but I think Garland reminded Lynch of his own dad, or was perhaps intentionally modeled on him a bit.

Interestingly, as early as Episode 5, he’s talking to Einar Thorson about “the legends and folklore of ancient Iceland,” so there’s already some hint of his interest in the mysterious/supernatural.

EDIT: Here’s a photo of Lynch’s parents from Room to Dream:View attachment 635

Is it just me or does she bear quite a resemblance to Moira Kelly?