What about Music ?

[Jasper]

I love Hank Williams. I used to sit around the fireplace with friends and play acoustic guitar and sing a lot of Hank Williams, Jimmie Rodgers, Johnny Cash, The Carter Family, and other stuff. That was a long time ago. My favorite Hank song to play included Lost Highway (naturally), the very similar House of Gold, Ramblin' Man, Alone and Forsaken, I'm So Lonesome I Could Cry, and probably more than any of them, Weary Blues from Waitin’.

It seems like a good opportunity to mention my love for Jimmie Rodgers, and I’d highly recommend him to anyone who likes Hank Williams, for whom he’s essentially a spiritual ancestor. Though he enjoys “Father of Country Music” status, Rodgers suffered from tuberculosis, and passed away at just 35, which is a little reminiscent of how Hank Williams didn’t even make it past age 29.

Some of my favorite Jimmie Rodgers tunes include Waiting for a Train, My Blue Eyed Jane, Blue Yodel (T For Texas, AKA Blue Yodel No. 1), and the phenomenal 1930 recording with Louis Armstrong, Blue Yodel No. 9 (Standin’ on the Corner):




Forty years later, in 1970, Johnny Cash even did a version of this with Louis on The Johnny Cash Show, complete with a short recounting of the session by Louis, which is quite a joy for anyone who loves Rodgers, Armstrong, and Cash!:

 

[Ickles]

If you have 16 hours to spare, I recommend checking out Ken Burns' Country Music doc. He dives deep into the history of the genre. If you've ever seen his "Jazz" documentary, it's similar in execution.

Bumping this because it feels relevant with the Hank Williams/Jimmie Rodgers talk. Both artists are covered extensively in the series. It is really solid, especially if you're a fan of older/classic country. The majority of the episodes cover pre-1970. The Burns' series is simply titled "Country Music."

 

[Stavrogyn]

If you have 16 hours to spare, I recommend checking out Ken Burns' Country Music doc. He dives deep into the history of the genre. If you've ever seen his "Jazz" documentary, it's similar in execution.

I've got both series ready and just waiting to be seen, but so far I've only watched episode three of Country Music, titled The Hillbilly Shakespeare (1945-1953), because of, well, Hank Williams. It was quite insightful.

 

[Stavrogyn]

I love Hank Williams. I used to sit around the fireplace with friends and play acoustic guitar and sing a lot of Hank Williams, Jimmie Rodgers, Johnny Cash, The Carter Family, and other stuff. That was a long time ago.

That sounds great! I envy you.

I've never learned to play any instrument, even though my brother is a musician. But after spending some time at the seaside this summer with friends who all play at least one instrument, I figured that I'll have to learn to play at least a song or two on the guitar.

I think that Hank would be quite surprised to learn that there are people listening to his music in small European countries such as mine in the year 2024... My brother told me just last Friday that he is learning to play Lovesick Blues on the harmonica.

It seems like a good opportunity to mention my love for Jimmie Rodgers, and I’d highly recommend him to anyone who likes Hank Williams, for whom he’s essentially a spiritual ancestor.

I know of him, but I've never delved deeper into his life story or music (I watched Clint Eastwood's Honkytonk Man, though). Thank you for the recommendations, I'll check his stuff out!

 

[Stavrogyn]

Has anyone seen I Saw the Light (2015), directed by Marc Abraham? What did you think of it? I've been anxiously waiting for the release of that film back in the day, and it did not disappoint. Now I watch it every few years and I don't understand the bad reviews at all.

I think that Tom Hiddleston was great, no matter what Hank III (a legend of his own) says, and Elizabeth Olsen was beautiful and charming. They complemented each other well.

However, no matter how much I love I Saw the Light, the real gem is Hank Williams: The Show He Never Gave (1980, David Acomba), which boasts a terrific performance by Sneezy Waters and is one of those rare films that had a huge impact on me and my life. It was the one that started it all.



I've yet to see other non-documentary films about Hank Williams.

 

[Stavrogyn]

I had no idea that Lady Gaga released a Joker: Folie à Deux companion album:



The tracklist sounds great, I'll have to give it a listen.

 

[Stavrogyn]

I have no idea who Robbie Williams is, and this movie is a complete mystery to me. We saw the trailer last time we were at the movies and we were pretty baffled.

I'm aware that, for whatever unfathomable reason, Robbie Williams has never achieved great success in the United States, but I'm still surprised that you haven't heard of him, being a musician well-versed in pop culture, and all. He's been a huge star in Europe for more than 30 years now and has sold more than 75 million albums worldwide. He's had countless hits across different genres. You've never heard Angels? Feel? Or Let Me Entertain You?

Despite most of his music being at least somewhat "pop", he's a singer-songwriter who's never been afraid to deal with his struggles and issues in his songs, and the new film only reaffirms that. He's also a great entertainer: I've been to two of his concerts (first in 2013 and second exactly ten years later) and I count both of them among the best I've been to. Looking forward to seeing him live again.

Now I have to send you the link to my favourite track of his:

 

[Jordan Cole]

I'm aware that, for whatever unfathomable reason, Robbie Williams has never achieved great success in the United States, but I'm still surprised that you haven't heard of him, being a musician well-versed in pop culture, and all.

I'm actually not well-versed in pop culture in terms of modern music. I hate most popular music past 1995 or so and never listen to the radio or anything. I'm kind of in my bubble of the few indie/alternative bands I love that I just listen to over and over. Whenever my wife plays a new album she likes, it sounds absolutely horrible to me. It took years for me to finally "know" who or what Taylor Swift is, because she would talk about her all the time and I would have no idea who this person was and couldn't name any songs.

Music production has gone so downhill that it all sounds terrible. It's a small miracle when one of my favorite bands manages to avoid modern trends and puts out something I really love.

He's had countless hits across different genres. You've never heard Angels? Feel? Or Let Me Entertain You?

No. I couldn't identify him or those songs in a lineup if I had a gun to my head. (though what kind of police station operates that way!?)

I'm listening to the song you linked to. I'm sorry, but this is really not my thing.

 

[Stavrogyn]

I'm actually not well-versed in pop culture in terms of modern music. I hate most popular music past 1995 or so and never listen to the radio or anything. I'm kind of in my bubble of the few indie/alternative bands I love that I just listen to over and over.

I'm similar in a way. I mostly listen to swing/jazz and country/folk music from the 1930s to the end of the 60s, and when I want to piss people off, I tell them that the music died in the 60s. Of course, I'm exaggerating a bit (there are many modern artists and bends that I love, like Bob Dylan, Leonard Cohen, Joy Division, The Smiths, Nirvana, Queen, Sting, etc.), but in my opinion, the mainstream music died with the emergence or rock and roll, after which it all just went downhill. I have a soft spot for the 90s because that was the decade when I grew up, but mainstream music has just been getting worse and worse as time goes by. Just like you said, I also couldn't name a single Taylor Swift song if my survival depended on it.

But my head is actually full of pop culture, ranging from high-brow cinema and stuff like the MCU to Frank Sinatra classics and trashy Eurodance songs from the 90s. I know the lyrics of hundreds and hundreds of songs by heart. You would be surprised to see videos from the New Year's party that I organized at my house two days ago: we sang everything from Bohemian Rhapsody in full to a turbo-folk song about a woman who likes men that drink rakia because they "smell of Serbia".

Anyway, I urge you to familiarize yourself with Robbie Williams, he's a legend.

 

[Cappy]

As an American I only know of Robbie Williams from a minor hit he had in “the states” with “Millennium” in maybe the late 90s?

I only heard my first Take That song about two months back, as one of their tracks is featured in Anora.

 

[Stavrogyn]

As an American I only know of Robbie Williams from a minor hit he had in “the states” with “Millennium” in maybe the late 90s?

Millenium is a classic, and yes, it dates back to his peak, which was during the late 90s-early 00s.

As someone coming from a non-English speaking country, I would assume that an English singer as famous as he is would be known all around the English-speaking world - which doesn't seem to be the case. But when it's all said and done, it probably doesn't bother him all that much, since he's filthy rich despite the lukewarm American reception.

As a child, I would sometimes regret not being born in a "major country", because it's harder to achieve any real success when you're creating in a language that most of the world isn't familiar with and the market you're aiming for consists of mere 4 million people. (Even if I wrote a great novel, I would have to translate it into English and try to find a publisher in the US or UK to allow myself to even dream of any kind of real success.) But, as I keep getting older, I appreciate more and more the fact that I'm both fully immersed in my local culture and the grander Western culture as well.

And I could always try writing in English.

I only heard my first Take That song about two months back, as one of their tracks is featured in Anora.

Now that's interesting. I wouldn't expect a Take That song to feature in a Sean Baker film. Nice catch!

 

[Dom]

Millenium is a classic, and yes, it dates back to his peak, which was during the late 90s-early 00s.

As someone coming from a non-English speaking country, I would assume that an English singer as famous as he is would be known all around the English-speaking world - which doesn't seem to be the case. But when it's all said and done, it probably doesn't bother him all that much, since he's filthy rich despite the lukewarm American reception.

As a child, I would sometimes regret not being born in a "major country", because it's harder to achieve any real success when you're creating in a language that most of the world isn't familiar with and the market you're aiming for consists of mere 4 million people. (Even if I wrote a great novel, I would have to translate it into English and try to find a publisher in the US or UK to allow myself to even dream of any kind of real success.) But, as I keep getting older, I appreciate more and more the fact that I'm both fully immersed in my local culture and the grander Western culture as well.

And I could always try writing in English.


Now that's interesting. I wouldn't expect a Take That song to feature in a Sean Baker film. Nice catch!

Like I said about Taylor Swift, I wouldn't know a song of hers if it bit me on the nose! I'm sure there have been songs by her played on the tannoy in the supermarket, but I wouldn't know it. Take That were massive, but it was years before I identified tracks I'd heard over tannoys as Take That, by which time they were long-dissolved.

And, at just shy of 50, my interest in popular culture died a long time ago, plus I've been turned into a work-from-home person, who thus rarely goes anywhere. I'm going to see Nosferatu for my birthday next week, which will mark the first time I've gone to the cinema since Blade Runner 2049!!

 

[Stavrogyn]

And, at just shy of 50, my interest in popular culture died a long time ago.

It's getting harder and harder for me to see any real difference between "culture" and "pop culture", and that's a good thing. Maybe it's something I've taken from my days at the university? Anyway, I would certainly classify Blade Runner as pop culture.

To take it to the extremes, I think that Plato is pop culture. I love his writing - I read 12 of his dialogues so far - but what I find most peculiar about them is that they mostly consist of silly characters arguing in a funny manner, with a lot of crossovers between different texts - both in terms of points of discussion and characters themselves - which makes it all one big shared universe, and in that sense, his work is very much akin to the MCU.

 

[Dom]

It's getting harder and harder for me to see any real difference between "culture" and "pop culture", and that's a good thing. Maybe it's something I've taken from my days at the university? Anyway, I would certainly classify Blade Runner as pop culture.

'Pop culture', aka 'popular culture' is something widely known and widely in use. Studio movies are popular culture, but I barely engage with it anymore. And, as it turns out, people didn't engage with Blade Runner 2049 either and it tanked at the box office. The original film certainly has had an impact in terms of fashion and design.

To take it to the extremes, I think that Plato is pop culture. I love his writing - I read 12 of his dialogues so far - but what I find most peculiar about them is that they mostly consist of silly characters arguing in a funny manner, with a lot of crossovers between different texts - both in terms of points of discussion and characters themselves - which makes it all one big shared universe, and in that sense, his work is very much akin to the MCU.

Plato's ideas, sadly, are still in use with a lot of politicians, even though they likely haven't read what he wrote. Aristotle was the true genius. But popular culture? Not really. The original writings are interesting, but beyond possible awareness of the name, I doubt any average person on the street knows anything about Plato or Aristotle. Philosophy is the most important part of any culture and the West has driven out any discussion or awareness of it. It's been left to ivory tower, highbrow types. The ideas of Plato, Aristotle, Socrates, Hegel, Kant, Hume, Marx, Nietzsche, Marcus Aurelius, Rand, Scruton, and countless others all battle it out in the intellectual sphere, but most people don't know of them and don't know anything about their ideas, which is tragic.

 

[Jasper]

It's getting harder and harder for me to see any real difference between "culture" and "pop culture", and that's a good thing. Maybe it's something I've taken from my days at the university? Anyway, I would certainly classify Blade Runner as pop culture.

To take it to the extremes, I think that Plato is pop culture. I love his writing - I read 12 of his dialogues so far - but what I find most peculiar about them is that they mostly consist of silly characters arguing in a funny manner, with a lot of crossovers between different texts - both in terms of points of discussion and characters themselves - which makes it all one big shared universe, and in that sense, his work is very much akin to the MCU.

I agree on Blade Runner, but I'm not so sure about poor Plato. Anyway, what is it that you most enjoy about Plato? Political ideas? Metaphysics? Or...is it really just the silly characters?!

P.S. I'm not a Plato expert, or even a novice, but I have some idea of his metaphysical ideas.

Philosophy is the most important part of any culture and the West has driven out any discussion or awareness of it. It's been left to ivory tower, highbrow types. The ideas of Plato, Aristotle, Socrates, Hegel, Kant, Hume, Marx, Nietzsche, Marcus Aurelius, Rand, Scruton, and countless others all battle it out in the intellectual sphere, but most people don't know of them and don't know anything about their ideas, which is tragic.

I certainly agree with this bit. I hope that the situation can be turned around, but I have my doubts. The same seems to hold true for most or all of the other forms of higher culture of the West. Every element appears to have become utterly niche and endangered. If you should, say, enjoy classical music, it's like you're some kind of freak. (It seems like a good idea to mention music, since this is, at least for the moment, taking place in the music thread.)

P.S. Is it the politics of Plato that you don't like, the metaphysics, or the lot? Any opinion on Neoplatonism?

 

[Cappy]

I’ve been kind of obsessed with Ethel Cain lately — her music has an ethereal, dream pop quality, mixed with lyrics that suggest an existence mired in “white trash” Americana: