The TV Diagnostic

[Jordan Cole]

I just have to add that, as stated previously, I absolutely hate motion smoothing.

However, if @Metalane likes it, then what's the problem?

Because his posts are putting forth the argument (again, UNLESS I'M MISUNDERSTANDING) that it's not a big manipulation of the image and that it isn't betraying the artist's intent to the degree me and others are saying. So I'm arguing the point. I think he's completely wrong. I stand by my other post, I think it's about equal to putting an album on 1.5x speed, and I think it's nowhere near the options of slightly adjusting brightness or contrast or sound equalization, as he's implied. Motion Smoothing is adding frames the filmmaker did not intend and shoving them into the flow of the movement.

Changing the entire feeling of movement in a film or television show is destruction of the image far greater than any other options I can think of, outside of EXTREME (and probably insane) adjustments in the picture and sound. But most people don't do extreme picture and sound adjustments, but MANY people do use motion smoothing.

Nobody in the thread has said anything close to "you don't have a right to do this", I even made a point of saying "people can do what they want." So genuinely not sure what you're responding to. Our god-given rights to watch things how we want in our own homes is not really the crux of discussion here.

I got similarly frustrated on the reddit when people talk about not watching David Lynch's version of Fire Walk With Me and choosing the fan edit instead, and recommending it to new viewers. Dozens of retorts I got were "people have a right to watch it how they want" despite my argument never being counter to that (though I'd argue a new viewer should have a "right" to not be steered in the wrong direction by fans who should know better and told to watch a fan edit without knowing all of the context or arguments against doing so.)

 

[Metalane]

I guess when it comes to “accurate,” my priority is the artist’s intent. That’s not always an easy thing to determine, especially when the director is no longer alive. Luckily, when it comes to Lynch, he is still with us and keeping up with the latest technologies, upscaling his own films to director-approved 4K transfers. I’m sure we could each argue a bit with the color timing of INLAND EMPIRE or some of the AI upscaling choices, but they come from him and therefore reflect his view of the movie (at least as of 2021 when he supervised the upscale). Respectfully, I’m not quite sure what you mean you’re being “accurate” to? I’m assuming you mean you’re choosing the settings that make the film look most realistic to you?

I appreciate you acknowledging being hypocritical. I’m sure I am too, in many of my opinions. But for me, I strive to see and hear the work in the way that’s truest to the way the author of it intended. Lynch has gone as far as to include extras on his discs that guide viewers how to set the brightness settings on their TVs. I can’t imagine he’d ever want someone to watch one of his films with motion smoothing.

Lynch has actually indirectly criticized TV’s before due to their relative small size and speaker quality, with a full blown theater being optimal for him. So none of us, unless we have the highest end home projector setup, are doing justice by him lol. And oh yeah, most directors would likely be appalled by it, I understand that.

So I guess what I’m saying is that if I can’t get absolute 100% accuracy even if I wanted too with my setup, I feel more comfortable taking my own liberties.

It also makes me wonder if there’s been directors, if they wanted to film at a higher fps, but didn’t for fear of industry rejection or something, and wouldn’t have minded modern motion—smoothing .

I have an LG OLED along with OPPO and Panasonic 4K Blu-ray players and (pretty much*) never experience any judder with current settings. I do believe I have a very slight de-judder set, as was recommended, but no other motion smoothing. Everything looks as it should, and I honestly feel for those who have such bad luck with their set-ups. I just never have, after taking around a week to study and fine-tune any new TV.

*There was one scene in The Return in the Rancho Rosa subdivision that was judder-y, but that's just about the only one I recall seeing on my current TV.

For what it's worth, a Sony 4k Blu-ray player caused the sex scene in Part 18 to have some halo effects in the upper corner of the screen due to the extreme darkness of the scene. I never saw any experts complain about that, though, so I knew there had to be some fix. When I switched to the Panasonic 4k player, the issue was no longer there...the judder in Rancho Rosa also disappeared. Every little component of your set up can make a difference, and there really shouldn't be any issues with most properly mastered/transferred media.

Hmm, so the Blu ray player quality does play a big role huh? I only have my PS5 to play off of, but I know there’s this popular $2,000 Blu ray player, and this $4,000 streaming box thing that I forget the name of name, but is supposedly the best.

 

[Metalane]

Because his posts are putting forth the argument (again, UNLESS I'M MISUNDERSTANDING) that it's not a big manipulation of the image and that it isn't betraying the artist's intent to the degree me and others are saying. So I'm arguing the point. I think he's completely wrong. I stand by my other post, I think it's about equal to putting an album on 1.5x speed, and I think it's nowhere near the options of slightly adjusting brightness or contrast or sound equalization, as he's implied. Motion Smoothing is adding frames the filmmaker did not intend and shoving them into the flow of the movement.

Changing the entire feeling of movement in a film or television show is destruction of the image far greater than any other options I can think of, outside of EXTREME (and probably insane) adjustments in the picture and sound. But most people don't do extreme picture and sound adjustments, but MANY people do use motion smoothing.

Nobody in the thread has said anything close to "you don't have a right to do this", I even made a point of saying "people can do what they want." So genuinely not sure what you're responding to. Our god-given rights to watch things how we want in our own homes is not really the crux of discussion here.

I got similarly frustrated on the reddit when people talk about not watching David Lynch's version of Fire Walk With Me and choosing the fan edit instead, and recommending it to new viewers. Dozens of retorts I got were "people have a right to watch it how they want" despite my argument never being counter to that (though I'd argue a new viewer should have a "right" to not be steered in the wrong direction by fans who should know better and told to watch a fan edit without knowing all of the context or arguments against doing so.)

I agree with you on that fan-edit crap, not sure why anyone would recommend that. Or, what’s worse I’ve seen, is people recommending skipping the second half of season 2, and just skipping to episode 29. That blows my mind, because every piece is part of the whole, weather you subjectively feel differently per episode or not imo.

And again, unfortunately I can’t upload videos to this site, but you’d see when done right, the smoothing won’t even be noticeable, the frames looking nearly untouched, and just a bit of realism is added.

 

[Tulpa]

And again, unfortunately I can’t upload videos to this site, but you’d see when done right, the smoothing won’t even be noticeable, the frames looking nearly untouched, and just a bit of realism is added.

Can you DM me details of what format/size you’re trying to upload and what error message you’re getting? Needs to be looked at.

 

[Metalane]

Can you DM me details of what format/size you’re trying to upload and what error message you’re getting? Needs to be looked at.

I messaged you the details.