Riget/The Kingdom: Exodus (2022)

[Agent Earle]

Same here. Especially since I've seen everything else made by von Trier (except for a few shorts) and I consider him one of my favorite filmmakers.

That's interesting. Me, I haven't seen anything else BUT The Kingdom (come to think of it, I saw Melancholia but that's the only one of his feature films that I did)...

 

[Stavrogyn]

That's interesting. Me, I haven't seen anything else BUT The Kingdom (come to think of it, I saw Melancholia but that's the only one of his feature films that I did)...

It's hard for me to make myself start watching a new series because I like films much more and find TV series time-consuming even if I like them. That's why I've been postponing watching Riget for two years now, even though up until recently it consisted of only 8 episodes.

I've seen the original Twin Peaks only two times.

 

[WorldFarAway]

Not to compare it disfavorably to TR, but I can't help with the telephone scene with Einar. You've got one character who's clearly become a stand-in, speaking to who they've replaced (and who we, the audience, know is dead in real life) as a way to at least acknowledge them. Except that in TR there's no other voice, no gesture taken to put a voice to someone who doesn't have one anymore. But with Einar we get a voice and it's not convincingly his voice, and instead of being at all heartfelt or respectful to character, it's just sort of morbid, mean, and stupid. I ended up feeling like I didn't see the narrative or human need to cameo the character.

That couldn’t have been the same Einar surely? The history and relationship between him and Bob as described on the phone seemed completely different to what we saw between them in the old show. I have become a bit lost when it comes to some of the plot threads though, so maybe I’m missing something.

I agree with a lot of what you say in your post, although I was a little more taken with the Big Brother imagery than you. The new characters just feel a bit empty and soulless, and I’m not sure that it’s purposeful in any way. Frowny eye-scoop man is particularly one note. I also disagree with Trier’s assessment that this is the funniest season yet, although that might again be because I feel so disconnected from the characters.

I am enjoying Willem Dafoe skulking around the corridors as Satan, however. Exactly the kind of thing I was hoping for from the season.

 

[AXX°N N.]

That couldn’t have been the same Einar surely? The history and relationship between him and Bob as described on the phone seemed completely different to what we saw between them in the old show. I have become a bit lost when it comes to some of the plot threads though, so maybe I’m missing something.

I'll have to watch the scene again at some point if it doesn't come up again, but I don't recall any contradiction (not that I was taking comprehensive notes or anything). I did go just now and look at the episode credits--unfortunately there are no roles listed, just actor names.

 

[SilentHills]

I’ve never seen any of the Riget series. How similar is it to David Lynch?

 

[eyeboogers]

That couldn’t have been the same Einar surely? The history and relationship between him and Bob as described on the phone seemed completely different to what we saw between them in the old show. I have become a bit lost when it comes to some of the plot threads though, so maybe I’m missing something.

I agree with a lot of what you say in your post, although I was a little more taken with the Big Brother imagery than you. The new characters just feel a bit empty and soulless, and I’m not sure that it’s purposeful in any way. Frowny eye-scoop man is particularly one note. I also disagree with Trier’s assessment that this is the funniest season yet, although that might again be because I feel so disconnected from the characters.

I am enjoying Willem Dafoe skulking around the corridors as Satan, however. Exactly the kind of thing I was hoping for from the season.

Definitely the same Einar Mosgaard, and the particle cannon plot resolves the conflict between those two characters from the previous season. Mosgaard was ousted as head of the department by Bob, and was instead placed as head of a hospital in the provincial Jutland (purgatory for an urban snob like Einar Mosgaard). For me, it was a great and respectful way to close the book on Mosgaard. The death of the actor does not have to mean the death of the character.

As previously mentioned, a lot of the humor of the show, and especially this season comes from reenforcing and dismantling stereotypes between Danes and Swedes. Some of this will probably translate to non-scandinavian viewers, and some of it won’t. For instance I am not sure if they explain what that giant statue/sleeping giant is that Karen encounters in the season premiere.

I found this season to be extremely funny. And it is worth remembering that cancel-culture and omnipresent flexible pronoun use is a swedish export, that only later became a big thing in the US and the rest of europe.

And this clash of what freedom and liberty means in Sweden vs. Denmark (Denmark being the first country in the world to legalise gay marriage, porn, extremely wide parametres for free speech, a “relaxed” attitude towards alchohol use and various other non-conservative initiatives) is a cornerstone of the epic battle between those nations that “Riget:Exodus” puts front and center. The hospital setting is generally used to talk about being “civilised”, what does that even mean, and do we risk losing things that are essential to being human by putting up too many structures, rules and constraints.

As much as I enjoy the final season, Halmar and his nemises played by Tuva Novotny were the only new characters that worked for me. “Karen” especially was a poor replacement for Drusse. Does anyone have any idea who/what Karen is channeling in those moments were she is speaking using a different tonality of voice/seems to be possesed?

 

[WorldFarAway]

Definitely the same Einar Mosgaard, and the particle cannon plot resolves the conflict between those two characters from the previous season. Mosgaard was ousted as head of the department by Bob, and was instead placed as head of a hospital in the provincial Jutland (purgatory for an urban snob like Einar Mosgaard). For me, it was a great and respectful way to close the book on Mosgaard. The death of the actor does not have to mean the death of the character.

Thanks for clearing that up. i somehow got the impression that Bob’s main connection to the Einar on the phone was through med school, in a way which did not account for their interactions in the old show. Will have to watch again!

 

[AXX°N N.]

Does anyone have any idea who/what Karen is channeling in those moments were she is speaking using a different tonality of voice/seems to be possesed?

A couple lines in Part 3 had me assume she was channeling Big Brother, and that he's the main vehicle for plot momentum, but I might be wrong.

 

[AXX°N N.]

In light of having just watched the finale, I think Karen was actually channeling Satan, and in a winking meta way this meant she was channeling Trier, the director nudging her through the plot figuratively and literally. But then that means that her trusting nature and willingness to go with the flow, in light of being read as an audience surrogate, means we're the ones used as tools to get away with a joke at our expense, tossed aside once everything crumbles and set on fire for all our effort.

Maybe I'm misreading or being unfair, but I'm not sure I find it clever or daring even as a Haneke-adjascent bit of audience hostility. First and foremost because I never felt an actual human connection to Karen in order for my immersion to be used as part of any dramatic technique, even for use as shock value, or condemnation, or reversal of expectation or identification, or anything involving my perceptions used against me for some effect--and so what's accomplished, beyond a vague comprehension of what it was supposed to evoke?

It became harder by the end not to see nearly every element as a pale shadow of things done better in TR. The spirits emptying out of the grave sent me back to the much more immersive, impressive, atmospheric Part 8. The doppelgangers weren't terrifying, the owl wasn't moody, the demonic figures weren't fascinatingly ineffable. It feels like a narrative built off of a mistaken notion of why TP worked, and I only say that knowing that the old series owes itself to TP and that Trier's recent statements on TR paint a somewhat superficial view on its dynamics.

As for superficial similarities, we've got:

The creator in a winking, meta role as a director of events: Lynch as FBI director, Trier as Satan.

The vague but unconfirmed suggestion that all is a dream: Here, we've got the brain-damaged Mona being significantly related to an homage to St. Elsewhere's "it was all imagined in the mind of an autistic child looking at a snowglobe that contains the series' setting" conclusion.

A surreal breakdown of reality where it sure looks like the bad side won.

A deliberate inability to place where the workings of supernatural figures begin or end.

But here none of these ideas are wielded as any deeper signifier; none of it seems to be grasping at anything psychologically real. There's no parallelism, there's just things happening.

The entire series is revealed all along to have been a couple of really ridiculous people being strung along by Satan to bring about the apocalypse, and he does and he wins, and in doing so there's a pretty obvious meta subtext grafted back onto everything, and we stop and go, "oh," but that's kind of it.

None of the politics, for instance, seems like it's putting a finger on actual political dynamics other than that conflicts and cultural differences and enmities exist. Bosses can overextend their authority, and also be trapped like peons by the responsibilities of their own authority. These are multiple scenes that relay the same simple sentences. Beyond these terse reductions? I'm not sure there is a beyond.

As for the most consistent sub-plot of the season, and the only one that seems to take pains to get us to sympathize and empathize, well, we've got a victimless man being harassed into seeming like a sex pest by a victimizing woman ... as written and directed by a man who has had a sexual assault allegation leveled his way, or more like revealed after decades of it being secreted away by the studio he co-owns (read: a bit of his own overextension of authority). Regardless of what you think about the case itself and what it means about Trier as a person outside of his art, looking strictly at the subplot itself, it doesn't seem to be communicating or exploring any idea more profound than this: some women bought into certain social movements are both dumb and evil, no more fleshed out than the most shallow of strawmen.

I say this as someone who counts many of Trier's films among my favorites, but I'm left in the lurch with Kingdom.

Anyone?

 

[Count Alto]

Wow, haven't even noticed there's a thread about Riget here and I was really looking to discussing it with whoever seen it yet. The show is tragically overlooked imo.

I think Karen was actually channeling Satan, and in a winking meta way this meant she was channeling Trier, the director nudging her through the plot figuratively and literally.

That didn't cross my mind at all actually, but it's probably the most likely explanation. I also agree with the rest of the sentiment, Karen sadly just wasn't as good as Drusse. It's really interesting to me that she's apparently a character from Trier's film The Idiots (1998 ). Now I haven't seen it yet, but from what I know she has quite a tragic backstory there and I don't think it was ever brought up in Exodus, at least not in any important way. To make things even weirder, just the other day I saw an interview with Bodil Jørgensen who plays Karen and she said Lars envisioned her as a lead way back after The Idiots released and presumably after Kirsten Rolffes passed away. If that's really true and he really had this idea for that long and stuck with it, it feels like I'm either missing something here or it just wasn't communicated well enough.

None of the politics, for instance, seems like it's putting a finger on actual political dynamics other than that conflicts and cultural differences and enmities exist.

I think that was the point, just like the original show. All these petty little infights and sensibilities of modern times are ultimately meaningless and in the face of metaphysical threat will just lead the entire humanity into doom. Even the controversial plotline of Halmer in a metoo fiasco was in my eyes obviously just updated love-hate dynamic between Helmer and Rigmor. Trier himself said he went with the original ending and the throwaway revelations in the last episode make it more clear. The amoral, despicable doctor who we think has committed something awful was comically enough innocent the entire time and everything that happened to him was an elaborate torture show by the avatar of Death.

Now I'd argue most of the payoffs like this would have been way more satisfying if the third season was actually made in the late 90's/early 00's, but that's perhaps one of my top 3 gripes with the whole season.

 

[AXX°N N.]

It's really interesting to me that she's apparently a character from Trier's film The Idiots (1998 ). Now I haven't seen it yet, but from what I know she has quite a tragic backstory there and I don't think it was ever brought up in Exodus, at least not in any important way. To make things even weirder, just the other day I saw an interview with Bodil Jørgensen who plays Karen and she said Lars envisioned her as a lead way back after The Idiots released and presumably after Kirsten Rolffes passed away.

Wow! I saw The Idiots only once and ages ago and so obviously I had zero clue about this connection during my watch. I'll have to rewatch both at some point.

I think that was the point, just like the original show. All these petty little infights and sensibilities of modern times are ultimately meaningless and in the face of metaphysical threat will just lead the entire humanity into doom.

I guess my problem is that I can imagine this working well as a narrative construct in theory, but the fact everyone was influenced and tricked the entire time removes a great deal of agency from the proceedings and makes me question if anyone ever stood a chance. There wasn't enough ambiguity maintained to believe there were any stakes retrospectively. On a metatextual level, too, the lack of agency is questionable--Trier dipped his hand in and removed everyone's humanity, but did the ends justify the means?

Even the controversial plotline of Halmer in a metoo fiasco was in my eyes obviously just updated love-hate dynamic between Helmer and Rigmor.

It's funny, I spent a great deal of time in my watch drawing parallels between abandoned plots and their stand-ins, but I never drew a parallel between the cat and mouse game and so failed to graft Anna onto Rigmor. I think Rigmor still being there prevented me from doing so--funnily enough, I was a little frustrated that Rigmor's character lacked what felt like a coherent payoff from her old arc, but now I see it's because it was redistributed.

Thanks, that actually makes the subplot a lot easier to swallow.

 

[Count Alto]

I guess my problem is that I can imagine this working well as a narrative construct in theory, but the fact everyone was influenced and tricked the entire time removes a great deal of agency from the proceedings and makes me question if anyone ever stood a chance. There wasn't enough ambiguity maintained to believe there were any stakes retrospectively. On a metatextual level, too, the lack of agency is questionable--Trier dipped his hand in and removed everyone's humanity, but did the ends justify the means?

In all fairness, looking at the outline of all the major events throughout all three seasons, I never thought the possibility of at least slightly more positive ending was that out of the reach. Exodus event basically mirrors Mary's exorcism from S1 and that was a success, but of course there were no Satanists or Beelzebub trying to interfere at that point.

Which does bring me to another thing that left me underwhelmed: the character of Little/Big Brother. It's evident that he was there to mediate between good and evil without resorting to the use of generic angelic forces and add more depth to the baseline theme of rational vs supernatural. But he lacked some sort of payoff or punch that couple of other plotlines had. In S2 he's like a twist on the Antichrist archetype and in Exodus he's some sort of metaphor for the hospital or science itself perhaps? And I honestly didn't know what to make of Trier's comparisons to the story Jacob and Esau.

There's just something that's missing there that would have made it more poignant and more than just a plot device he mainly ended up being in Exodus. Maybe dropping Age Kruger in favor of Grand Duke was somehow detrimental to it? Or maybe the whole point flew over my head and I'll understand it more after rewatching the entire show down the line.

 

[WorldFarAway]

I enjoyed the audacious and provocative nature of the ending, particularly the double-whammy of Trier’s appearance and Karen’s fate. That said, I can’t say the show left me with any strong emotions or even thoughts to dwell on. There’s always the question with Trier as to whether he is trying to express something meaningful or simply having a laugh, with many of his fans splitting the difference and saying that absurd comedy is a sincere part of his worldview. Riget is an interesting case, in that the director has always denigrated it in interviews, referring to it as a frivolous exercise in comparison to his film work. I think the use of that Wagner prelude from Melancholia was Trier’s way of gesturing towards this, inviting us to compare the emotionally resonant apocalypse from that film to the more glibly nihilistic apocalypse we are presented with here. I would have liked the show to go deeper, but impish subversion is part of what I enjoy about Trier’s work, and maybe I should appreciate that rather than obsessing about roads not taken.

 

[sneakydave]

I've just bought the season 1 and 2 box set. Going to rewatch season 1 then watch seasons 2 and 3 for the first time. Really looking forward to it.

 

[Stavrogyn]

How will you watch it? One episode per day or do you prefer some other approach?

Hopefully, I'll start watching it soon as well, so we'll be able to exchange our thoughts episode by episode

 

[Dom]

Still no sign of a Blu-ray, alas. I really hate shows getting put in 'streaming prison!'

 

[AXX°N N.]

Still no sign of a Blu-ray, alas. I really hate shows getting put in 'streaming prison!'

Yep, I feel a big emptiness in my shelf that I'm Thinking of Ending Things is stuck on Netflix seemingly forever.

 

[Ickles]

Yep, I feel a big emptiness in my shelf that I'm Thinking of Ending Things is stuck on Netflix seemingly forever.

There have been rumors for a while that it might come out as a Criterion edition at some point.