Obi-Wan Kenobi (the 2022 miniseries)

[Stavrogyn]

I do believe Lucas when he said that he had never considered Episodes 7-9, and that SW for him has been the story of the fall and the redemption of Anakin Skywalker. Episodes 1-6 imo have a consistent mythology, and I find Kenobi compelling, as it tries to give us another glimpse into it all. Just like with FWWM, we all knew how it was going to end, yet seeing it first-hand was fascinating nonetheless.

I couldn't agree more. If episodes 7-9 were actually good films, it still wouldn't have been enough because they also had to continue "the story of the fall and the redemption of Anakin Skywalker" in a meaningful way - a very difficult task considering how Return of the Jedi ended. Unfortunately, they're not merely bad, they also very much feel like unnecessary addendums made only to make money. They could make episodes 10-12 and continue ad infinitum, it wouldn't make any difference anymore. (I wouldn't be surprised if they really did that at some point.)

As for The Mandalorian, take into consideration that it's not part of the main storyline like Obi-Wan Kenobi, and I cannot guarantee that you would like it. But I enjoy it.

 

[Stavrogyn]

Part III of Obi-Wan Kenobi was the best one so far.

However, one portion of the episode - the best part - might prove controversial. I'll have to go through reviews and Reddit today to see what people are saying and whether or not I'm mistaken.

Spoiler

I'm talking about Kenobi's confrontation with Vader. If I remember correctly, wasn't it suggested in A New Hope that they haven't seen each other since Kenobi was Anakin's master and Anakin his apprentice? In that case, this would be a major and unexplainable retcon.

Edited to add: okay, I checked it out.

Spoiler

This is the original dialogue:

Darth Vader: I've been waiting for you, Obi-Wan. We meet again, at last. The circle is now complete. When I left you I was but the learner, but now I am the master.

 

[boske]

Yes, it gets better and better, and I suspect they still have a few major cards up their sleeves!

 

[thunderclap]

Guess I watched a different episode because I thought the first half was embarrassingly bad, the second half was actually decent until the last 5 - 10 min.

Spoiler

How did the woman helping Obi-wan not bump into the Third Sister in the tunnel?
How did the Third Sister get ahead of Leia?
Why did Vader forget how to use the force only a minute after using it? He's pulling Luke into the fire, it goes out, woman helping Obi-wan starts new fire, and Vader doesn't know how to get to Obi-wan who is slowly being helped by a droid. Use the goddamn force!

 

[Stavrogyn]

Guess I watched a different episode because I thought the first half was embarrassingly bad, the second half was actually decent until the last 5 - 10 min.

Spoiler

How did the woman helping Obi-wan not bump into the Third Sister in the tunnel?
How did the Third Sister get ahead of Leia?
Why did Vader forget how to use the force only a minute after using it? He's pulling Luke into the fire, it goes out, woman helping Obi-wan starts new fire, and Vader doesn't know how to get to Obi-wan who is slowly being helped by a droid. Use the goddamn force!

I found the first half funny, and some of its aspects - as far as this franchise goes - a refreshing new take on life under totalitarianism.

Spoiler

The first two things you mention - both dealing with the tunnel - I explained to myself by assuming that the characters know more than we do. The woman helping Obi-Wan might have known more ways to get out of the tunnel, so she used a shorter route instead of going all the way back, thus unintentionally avoiding Reva. Likewise, Reva could have assumed where the tunnel might lead... I agree that it's far from perfect writing if viewers have to come up with such explanations, but it's fantasy, so my tolerance for suspension of disbelief is quite high.

As for Vader, I assumed that, seeing Obi-Wan so weak and helpless, he felt that he is no longer match for him. I could feel his melancholy, watching over the fire. It wasn't truly mercy, letting Obi-Wan go, it was as if Vader just stopped, as if at that moment he simply no longer cared enough to continue the pursuit.

 

[Tulpa]

There's more than one exit and there's more than one way to the point where the tunnel leads. She have vehicular support and wouldn't have to use the tunnel.

Not sure breaking up the pacing to make that explicit would serve much purpose other than to bog things down.

Also Vader is tortured soul and probably has a thing about walking directly into fires. I'll take those beautiful shots of the back of his helmet foregrounding open flames over logical consistency any day of the week. Twice on Wednesdays. Also, maybe he had to refill his force powerbar. That's how the Jedi Fallen Order video game works (I jest, but this game features the other numbered Sisters btw).

They clearly spend a lot of time on these things when writing Mando and Boba Fett. But then they're lacking everything Obi-Wan has going for it.

I thought the first half was embarrassingly bad

What was embarrassingly bad about it? Apart from a few overcooked lines of dialogue I thought it was perfectly serviceable at worst.

 

[Soolsma]

Afraid of fire due to being traumatized by lava huh. Wonder why he lives on Mustafar then. Oh well, not that one should expect logic from Star Wars anyways.

 

[Tulpa]

Afraid of fire due to being traumatized by lava huh. Wonder why he lives on Mustafar then.

Well he doesn't live in the fire. And that was a potential subtext, I don't claim it was the actual reason. I don't really care if it was. There's enough going on in the scene to not get fixated on teleology and whether it makes sense on a mechanical level (not that I think it doesn't).

Oh well, not that one should expect logic from Star Wars anyways.

Logic is overrated in storytelling. If we applied this same standard of logic to Twin Peaks then none of us would be here to discuss it.

 

[Soolsma]

Logic is overrated in storytelling. If we applied this same standard of logic to Twin Peaks then none of us would be here to discuss it.

Of course, couldn't agree more. After all, at least fundamentally, Star Wars is just a fairy tale. Or at least, that's what I consider it to be. The fire was just a plot device, or visual story telling, and not a bad one imo.

 

[thunderclap]

There's more than one exit and there's more than one way to the point where the tunnel leads. She have vehicular support and wouldn't have to use the tunnel.

Not sure breaking up the pacing to make that explicit would serve much purpose other than to bog things down.

I think this could have easily been solved one of two ways: set designer could have shown at least ONE other tunnel joining, but instead all we see is a singular one. Or the woman (I can't remember her name) could have a throwaway line, something like "these tunnels were built throughout the village..." Anything would have been better IMO.

What was embarrassingly bad about it? Apart from a few overcooked lines of dialogue I thought it was perfectly serviceable at worst.

I guess I still haven't gotten over that since the prequels all the aliens suddenly speak English. Having the transport alien speaking perfect English bugs me. And some of the bad dialog. And the stormtroopers hitching a ride... ugh. Didn't like that either.

Obi-wan: "It's a long story."
Stormtrooper: "It's a long way to the spaceport."

Obi-wan tells a two minute story and then the stormtroopers hop out. Granted the stormtroopers never said they were going to the spaceport but it was certainly implied. And I don't think Obi-wan would slipup and call Leia "Leia" in front of them like that. Seemed out of character.

As for Vader, I assumed that, seeing Obi-Wan so weak and helpless, he felt that he is no longer match for him. I could feel his melancholy, watching over the fire. It wasn't truly mercy, letting Obi-Wan go, it was as if Vader just stopped, as if at that moment he simply no longer cared enough to continue the pursuit.

That's an interesting take, but I think the hate Vader has for Obi-wan, especially after 10 years, I don't think he'd just let him go. He wants to torture him, so I'm sure he could have force pulled Obi-wan to the stormtroopers who could have shackled him, then Vader could torture him later once he recovered. Just didn't gel for me.

 

[Stavrogyn]

Logic is overrated in storytelling. If we applied this same standard of logic to Twin Peaks then none of us would be here to discuss it.

Very well said!

Lack of logic never bothers me as much as, let's say, condescending exposition, which can ruin a show for me, like it happened with Dark, where they continuously shoved explanations down our throats.

(There are moments when Star Wars has too much exposition as well, I know.)

 

[Tulpa]

I guess I still haven't gotten over that since the prequels all the aliens suddenly speak English.

Some aliens speak Galactic Basic in the original trilogy, too.

Having the transport alien speaking perfect English bugs me. And some of the bad dialog. And the stormtroopers hitching a ride... ugh. Didn't like that either.

Fair enough. I guess it does straddle the line dividing "good camp" and "bad camp".

The Stormtroopers always felt like useless meatgrinder conscripts. The Empire's spin game made them look like an intimidating military force through sheer numbers.

But zoom in to ground level and they're just a bunch of punks who can't aim and have Hutt meat for brains.

Not sure if anyone else has experience with checkpoints/inspections/searches in countries led by dictatorships. I have, and this episode's depiction was so relatable.

Of course there's fear and paranoia and terror. But there's also incompetence, stupidity, and even humor in the mundane daily grind. No matter how ruthless the dictator or his generals are, the bulk of troops are still jackasses.

 

[Stavrogyn]

And the stormtroopers hitching a ride... ugh. Didn't like that either.

I loved that! It added a brief sense of realism and real-lifeness to an otherwise mostly fantastical universe.

 

[boske]

One could argue that English had become a universal language of the empire. From what I remember of the original mythology, the first batch of stormtroopers were the top-notch military force, and the quality of the clones had since degraded over time.

 

[Soolsma]

the transport alien

Kinda weird how he was able to produce consonants. The way he fainted when he was hit in the back made me facepalm. (yeah, yeah, I know, we get an alien supporting character and I'm still complaining)

(There are moments when Star Wars has too much exposition as well, I know.)

Midichlorians, perhaps?

 

[Stavrogyn]

Midichlorians, perhaps?

I consider that more of a retcon than exposition I know that the midichlorians were always divisive, but I never minded the concept. I'm probably not the most objective person regarding anything related to the first six Star Wars films, because they were no doubt my favourite piece of (pop) culture in childhood.

Maybe that's why these days I'm so forgiving toward series like The Mandalorian, The Book of Boba Fett, and Obi-Wan Kenobi, as well as films like Rogue One and Solo. (Not the sequel trilogy, though.)

 

[boske]

A funny thought: Obi-Wan Kenobi goes back in time (using The Force or midichrorian electricity), and stops Anakin from visiting chancellor Palpatine all by himself. Instead, they go together but find the office empty. They then go to Padme's place, and learn that the senator from Naboo goes by the name of Tremond. Obi-Wan is confused, Anakin screams, lights go out, the end!

 

[secretlettermkr]

getting worse with each episode, the 4th episode was sloppy, filled with nonsense and Reva is the worst Star Wars "Villian" ever, she cant act, she is not menacing, not credible.. its all so lame. ((sigh!..))

 

[thunderclap]

getting worse with each episode, the 4th episode was sloppy, filled with nonsense and Reva is the worst Star Wars "Villian" ever, she cant act, she is not menacing, not credible.. its all so lame. ((sigh!..))

My favorite interaction.

Man to Obi-wan: I can’t help you.
Obi-wan: You don’t understand what the Empire is capable of.
Man: The Empire killed my wife so I do know. I’ll help you.

 

[Soolsma]

Yes, the acting seems bad all over the place. In fact, it's so abundant I think it's mostly due to the direction, screenplay etc.
I'm unsure exactly why but I actually quite enjoyed the latest episode. I guess I liked some of the setting and aesthetics, the base, the underwater creatures, the jedi tomb, the A wings. Plus, it felt a little adventurous.
BTW, I have a gut feeling Reva will redeem herself before the end, would be a classic Star Wars trope. Also I think the inquisitors were Jedi once.