Cinema formats (or, film vs digital)

[saturn's child]

Am I the only one who prefers grainy / 'bad' / lower quality viewing? Maybe I haven't seen things on the right kind of TV (don't know that I've seen an OLED for example), but I've not been a fan of various digital HD / UHD / 4K type stuff I've seen & am regretting getting rid of my old CRT TV a year or so ago.

I mean, I'm not saying "240 pixels or bust", but there's something about hyper-clarity that I'm not into.

 

[Soolsma]

I can see where you're coming from. 4K can seem like hyperrealistic art sometimes, which isn't always fitting. It's slightly uncanny. For me it depends on the film.
The new hype surrounding OLED's is that black is supposedly truly black, like plasma screens used to. Can't deny I wouldn't mind watching TPTR in 4k on that.

 

[Metalane]

Which one did you get? I got the LG CX 2 years back and the picture quality is stunning!

The Sony A90J, 55 inch. I actually haven’t even played any 4K/HDR content yet, and have just stuck to 1080p/SDR streams because of my WiFi is inconsistent and I don’t have any 4K services. I need to get an Ethernet cable before I do anything else. The depth is amazing though.

Am I the only one who prefers grainy / 'bad' / lower quality viewing? Maybe I haven't seen things on the right kind of TV (don't know that I've seen an OLED for example), but I've not been a fan of various digital HD / UHD / 4K type stuff I've seen & am regretting getting rid of my old CRT TV a year or so ago.

I mean, I'm not saying "240 pixels or bust", but there's something about hyper-clarity that I'm not into.

I know what you mean. It takes a really good TV to appreciate modern camera tech. I actually felt that way with The Return sometimes. Meaning some moments, like almost all of Part 8, could’ve felt more “authentic” I guess. It just feels too digital.

Lynch and Deming have actually acknowledged this, and deliberately chose a more filmic lens, because while they love the tech and convenience that comes with digital cameras, they don’t like the look either.

I can see where you're coming from. 4K can seem like hyperrealistic art sometimes, which isn't always fitting. It's slightly uncanny. For me it depends on the film.
The new hype surrounding OLED's is that black is supposedly truly black, like plasma screens used to. Can't deny I wouldn't mind watching TPTR in 4k on that.

For me, it’s the depth and range of highlights that are truly stunning, as well as the accuracy. I do hear that Sony’s are the best on all fronts, including depth.

I’m sure Lost Highway 4K will look the best on an OLED, since the dark scenes were intentionally filmed too dark for TV’s of the time.

 

[Stavrogyn]

I enjoy, for example, black and white films from the Golden Age of Hollywood much better if the quality of the picture is high. As for the colour films, it depends; Dogme 95 films certainly wouldn't be what they are if not for the grainy, "lower" quality picture.

 

[saturn's child]

This is making some sense, thanks soolsma & Metalane. I think I may just need to watch on a better TV; for example, Stavrogyn, I watched a Golden Age film in some variety of higher definition & it looked appalling, but it may have been obsolete tech (I have no idea what the quality was).

Anyway, I realise I'm sailing this ship into off topic territory, so I'll just say that I'm definitely interested in watching both The Return & -- say -- Lost Highway 4K on an OLED,  however, I would prefer to see Unrecorded Night filmed on the Lumière brothers' camera.

 

[Metalane]

God, if only I could see a Lynch work on the big screen. I bet some local cinema houses still play some.

Why couldn’t I have been a Lynch fan prior to 2006? Lol

 

[baxter]

In Australia, there are some cinemas that have a "streaming" service, where you can book sessions and pick the film from a selection. You usually need to get a certain number of ticket sales. But Fire Walk With Me was on the list. Worth looking out for in case you have something similar near you Metalane.

 

[Metalane]

In Australia, there are some cinemas that have a "streaming" service, where you can book sessions and pick the film from a selection. You usually need to get a certain number of ticket sales. But Fire Walk With Me was on the list. Worth looking out for in case you have something similar near you Metalane.

Ah, cool, I had no idea they do that. I’ll definitely check!

 

[Stavrogyn]

God, if only I could see a Lynch work on the big screen. I bet some local cinema houses still play some.

Why couldn’t I have been a Lynch fan prior to 2006? Lol

I became a fan in 2009, but 10 years later, in 2019, one of only two small arthouse theaters in my town that still exist held a Lynch retrospective - they showed 9 of his 10 feature films, with only Dune missing - so I went to rewatch Eraserhead and Lost Highway. It was packed, both times. I've been to that theater many times during the last 15 years, but it was full only then as well as when I attended the screening of Solaris (1972), by Andrei Tarkovski.

Once there was also a third theater, Kino Europa, which was the best theater in the town. It was focused mostly on new arthouse films, and it often organized discussions with interesting guests - live. Some of them I attended, like the events with Vittorio Storaro, Oliver Stone, Albert Serra, Slavoj Žižek... I even saw Béla Tarr in person, and it was funny because it started earlier, and we were late, so we arrived right at the moment when he announced that that was his last public appearance of that kind. In 2013, they also organized an online Q&A with David Lynch.

Anyway, even though I considered Kino Europa one of the most important institutions in my town, and it even won the Best Programming Award in 2016, awarded by Europa Cinemas, in 2019, it closed because of some political disputes. It's still closed, with hardly any hope that it might ever reopen. But multiplexes are going stronger than ever. Oh well...

 

[baxter]

I've seen Blue Velvet (Cinema Le Grand Action, Paris), Mulholland Drive (Cambridge, UK and Melbourne), Fire Walk with Me (Melbourne), and Inland Empire (Geneva). All great on the big screen, but I'd love to see a full retrospective. The jackpot for me would actually be watching a marathon showing of The Return. I work in a university, so we obviously took over a lecture theatre at lunchtime to watch episodes back in the day ;-)

 

[Stavrogyn]

The jackpot for me would actually be watching a marathon showing of The Return.

That would be perfect! I would love that. Maybe I should write to someone asking to make it happen?

And you reminded me that I also saw Blue Velvet, in the same theater as the other Lynch films, but almost a decade earlier.

 

[Ickles]

As somebody who watched Lost Highway in the the theater first run in 1997...you are all making me feel old as hell.

Seeing Lynch's works on a big screen/35mm back in the day was certainly a powerful experience. I've seen every feature of his on a big screen and they are by far the most indelible cinematic experiences of my life. I can tell you when and where I saw all his films, even the seat I was in. Just the sound alone coming off a mag strip on a big behemoth of a celluloid projector was a thing to behold. To paraphrase Lynch himself, seeing his stuff at home, even on a big, state-of-the-art TV, is still "a great sadness" comparatively. Even digital/DCP projection doesn't quite do it justice. If a rep house or indie theater near you ever runs a Lynch retrospective, especially if they can get their hands on any 35mm prints, drop everything to go.

 

[Metalane]

As somebody who watched Lost Highway in the the theater first run in 1997...you are all making me feel old as hell.

Seeing Lynch's works on a big screen/35mm back in the day was certainly a powerful experience. I've seen every feature of his on a big screen and they are by far the most indelible cinematic experiences of my life. I can tell you when and where I saw all his films, even the seat I was in. Just the sound alone coming off a mag strip on a big behemoth of a celluloid projector was a thing to behold. To paraphrase Lynch himself, seeing his stuff at home, even on a big, state-of-the-art TV, is still "a great sadness" comparatively. Even digital/DCP projection doesn't quite do it justice. If a rep house or indie theater near you ever runs a Lynch retrospective, especially if they can get their hands on any 35mm prints, drop everything to go.

Damn, you got my mouth watering haha. Obviously since I just got my new OLED only a month ago, it'll be a while before I can upgrade again. But when I do, I'll definitely go as big as my budget will allow for, while maintaining quality. Mine currently is 55". And luckily most sources say that high end TV's these days are better than projectors quality wise, so don't have to stress about building a whole set up for that lol.

But one day, I shall own a Lynch-worthy TV setup!

 

[secretlettermkr]

As somebody who watched Lost Highway in the the theater first run in 1997...you are all making me feel old as hell.

Seeing Lynch's works on a big screen/35mm back in the day was certainly a powerful experience. I've seen every feature of his on a big screen and they are by far the most indelible cinematic experiences of my life. I can tell you when and where I saw all his films, even the seat I was in. Just the sound alone coming off a mag strip on a big behemoth of a celluloid projector was a thing to behold. To paraphrase Lynch himself, seeing his stuff at home, even on a big, state-of-the-art TV, is still "a great sadness" comparatively. Even digital/DCP projection doesn't quite do it justice. If a rep house or indie theater near you ever runs a Lynch retrospective, especially if they can get their hands on any 35mm prints, drop everything to go.

I saw LOST HIGHWAY, THE STRAIGHT STORY, MULHOLLAND DRIVE, WILD AT HEART, BLUE VELVET, ELEPHANT MAN, and INLAND EMPIRE, all in 35mm.

And SAW very good digital HD projections of FWWM, ERASERHEAD, DUNE and TWIN PEAKS (whole OG series) THE RETURN (all 18 episodes), THE GRAND MOTHER and all early shorts.

 

[Metalane]

I saw LOST HIGHWAY, THE STRAIGHT STORY, MULHOLLAND DRIVE, WILD AT HEART, BLUE VELVET, ELEPHANT MAN, and INLAND EMPIRE, all in 35mm.

And SAW very good digital HD projections of FWWM, ERASERHEAD, DUNE and TWIN PEAKS (whole OG series) THE RETURN (all 18 episodes), THE GRAND MOTHER and all early shorts.

Sorry if this a dumb question, as I'm not that educated on camera tech, but is 35mm considered the reference quality for film? Do digital cameras today output at that? Does it have to do with pixel ratio?

 

[secretlettermkr]

35mm is a celluloid format . Theres also 16mm, 65mm... THE MASTER by PAUL THOMAS ANDERSON is filmed on both 35 and 65.
16mm "It is generally used for non-theatrical (e.g., industrial, educational) film-making, or for low-budget motion pictures. It also existed as a popular amateur or home movie-making format for several decades, alongside 8 mm film and later Super 8 film." (quoted from wikipedia, as english is not my first language, and this way was quicker to explain! hahah)

 

[secretlettermkr]

and then we got IMAX:

"IMAX film is called the 15/70 film format. Each frame is 70 millimeters high and 15 perforations wide. In other words, the film size is about 10 times bigger than standard 35-millimeter film. This film size gives an IMAX movie incredible clarity, even on the huge screens in IMAX theaters."

 

[eyeboogers]

Sometimes films shot on digital equipment will make a small quantity of 35mm prints for specific archival or distribution needs(which I think was the case with "Inland Empire"), but most often digital content for theatres stay on some form of hard drives and are delivered to theatres as a Digital Cinema Package(DCP). Which anyone can make at home.

 

[Metamorphosis]

Sorry if this a dumb question, as I'm not that educated on camera tech, but is 35mm considered the reference quality for film? Do digital cameras today output at that? Does it have to do with pixel ratio?

35mm is definitely reference quality but digital cameras have been capable of matching that for about a decade now (whenever the Arri Alexa came out).

The whole debate on film vs digital is pretty immaterial now. IMO today's movies/TV tends to look equally awful regardless of format. The current trends in cinematography & lighting are exasperating.

 

[Metalane]

and then we got IMAX:

"IMAX film is called the 15/70 film format. Each frame is 70 millimeters high and 15 perforations wide. In other words, the film size is about 10 times bigger than standard 35-millimeter film. This film size gives an IMAX movie incredible clarity, even on the huge screens in IMAX theaters."

I see, so, can modern TV's output that reference wise? Now that I recall, I do remember my new TV having an IMAX Enhanced mode. So that's just extra big widescreen?