SPECULATION Are you Atheist or Theist?

[Deleted member 249]

I'm speculating about the nature of TP fans here. Would you declare Atheism or Theism?

I take Atheism and Theism to be the lip profession, not the mental workings under the hood.

What l mean is: Most Atheists will probably have some wonder lurking in the mind. Certainly all Theists will have doubts, hence "belief". As such there's no room for the perfect razor's edge of Agnosticism in this new definition.


This is not to debate the relative merits of any viewpoint, just wondering how people receive Twin Peaks given that, in my opinion (correct me?) Lynch is Theist with a twist, and Mark Frost is Atheist with a twist.

 

[AXX°N N.]

Has Frost alluded to his atheism? For some reason it's opposite in my head; Lynch being atheist with an asterisk and Frost being theist with an asterisk, though I don't have any basis for the latter. But I have read Lynch contextualize belief in a way where it seems he doesn't have it; here's a quote, but there's others I have in mind I can't find at the moment: "I don't think that people accept the fact that life doesn't make sense. I think it makes people terribly uncomfortable. It seems like religion and myth were invented against that, trying to make sense out of it."

His spiritualism seems like many in the west who embrace eastern thought, that it's not out of dogma or worship but more a practical recognition that it's better at allegorically capturing truth than other belief systems. That's where I stand as an agnostic, and it's elaborated on in this Schopenhauer quote:

"Brahma is supposed to have created the world by a kind of fall into sin, or by an error, and has to atone for this sin or error by remaining in it himself until he has redeemed himself out of it. Very good! In Buddhism the world arises as a consequence of an inexplicable clouding of the heavenly clarity of the blessed state of Nirvana after a long period of quietude. Its origin is thus a kind of fatality which is fundamentally to be understood in a moral sense, notwithstanding the case has an exact analogy in the physical world in the origin of the sun in an inexplicable primeval streak of mist. Subsequently, however, as a consequence of moral misdeeds it gradually deteriorates physically too, until it has assumed its present sad condition. Excellent! To the Greeks the world and the gods were the work of an unfathomable necessity: that will do as a provisional explanation. Ormuzd is continually at war with Ahriman: that is worth considering. But that a god like Jehovah should create this world of want and misery animi causa and de gaieté de cœur and then go so far as to applaud himself for it, saying it is all very good: that is quite unacceptable."

 

[Mr. Reindeer]

In Conversations with Mark Frost, Mark discusses how Warren was a "defiant" agnostic (Mark speculates that this was because of things he'd seen in the war), whereas Mark’s mom was raised Presbyterian and sent Mark and Scott to a Unitarian Sunday school for a couple of years (which makes the stuff in Scott's My Life, My Tapes book all the more hilarious: recall that Cooper's dad is weirdly obsessed with Unitarianism). Mark quickly decided that what he was hearing in Sunday school "sounded like a bunch of hooey." He goes on: "So, no, we weren't religious, but in the back of my mind, maybe through a connection to nature, I sensed I might be inherently spiritual, not at all the same thing." (Pages 25-26.) He later discusses a friend getting him into myths about Lemuria, Jiddu Krishnamurti's work, and an "alternative way of looking at spirituality" which he found intriguing. (Page 100.) He expresses pretty strong disdain for all forms of mainstream Christianity, but also says that atheism to him "felt barren and intellectually dry" (Page 103.) "I've always felt there was more to the world and the reality we experience than what my culture was telling me. It just didn't seem convincing to me that 'There's only the physical world; it's only what we can see and measure. You're born and then you die and then you rot.' I mean, not only was that an unappealing scenario for all sorts of obvious reasons, it just didn't square with what my intuition was telling me--that there was more here than meets the eye." (Page 101.)

I think Lynch and Frost are pretty evenly matched in terms of spirituality. Lynch's beliefs are obviously mostly linked to TM ideas of higher consciousness, universal energy, etc. They both seem to believe in something bigger than what we can see, largely basing their beliefs on their own personal intuition without subscribing to any organized religion.

For myself, I was raised strict Catholic, which is as good a path as any to atheism, which is what I consider myself now. I would like to be more spiritual. I do feel a strong connection to nature and I'm fascinated by eastern thought, especially Buddhism. I’ve had various hippie friends over the years who have tried to help me find my more spiritual side, but at the end of the day I’m too damn cynical. To me, unlike Mark, the idea that "You're born and then you die and then you rot" just squares with everything I've perceived in my life. Not that it has to be as dark as he phrases it: obviously, the key is what you do with the time you have, and the finite nature of it makes it all the more precious.

 

[Jasper]

This thread made me remember something relevant that I'd seen regarding Lynch.

Lynch was raised Presbyterian, but doesn't consider himself a part of that faith any longer. He still believes in God, he just thinks He takes a more abstract form. When asked to define God, he said,

"The kingdom of heaven, God the almighty merciful father, is that totality. It's that level. It's the almighty merciful father, and the divine mother, the kingdom of heaven, the absolute, divine being, bliss consciousness, creative intelligence. These are all names, but it is that."

 

[Mr. Reindeer]

I love that he equates “creative intelligence” with God. Great quote.

 

[Deleted member 249]

Thanks for these replies.
@AXX°N N. & @Mr. Reindeer - I have always seen Frost as an Atheist bookworm on spirituality with a sky-high IQ hence behind at least 50% of the Lynch-Frost contribution to the Twin Peaks universe

Thank you @Mr. Reindeer for the page references.

@Jasper yep that's why l have Lynch down as Theist, but he's on a list of great atheist personalities somewhere on the web, but that is on shaky grounds (some reporter for some newspaper said so, and another person quoted him in that entry as being anti-organised religion, as if that makes him Atheist). To me, he's definitely Theist because of that quote.

So, that's my mind blown - Lynch and Frost are both Theist ... with an asterisk.